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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:46 am 
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Location: S E Wales The crumpled bit just to the left of England
Seems weights have a lot to play, and while a 1302 may be that heavy is a Baja. Going by Jons weight thread No seems the answer, they may be borderline to the 750kg with not a lot of fuel in and not much else, Would be towed behind a 4 ton van but even then it's very grey. Towing Dolly's and lifts still seem to fall for the same weight thing. It does look like its up to the copper on the spot. It was an idea to save fuel nowt else, The bug is legal and on the road just figured it could cheapen longer runs. I don't have a driveway or big yard so a big trailer is out. Ho hum will have to give it considerable thought. Even the so called legal braked A frames and dolly's, wouldn't be, because they rely on the car's handbrake to slow and therefore do not operate all 4 road wheels. Mad

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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:37 am 
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Location: Luton, Bedfordshire
the towing weights are not based on the vehicles actual weight but its max permissable weight (the vehicle its occupants, fuel, luggage etc) so if its a 4 seater thas going to be +150kg (over car weight), plus 40kg for the fuel (over car weight), etc etc

i dont have a manual for the bug but i would hazzard a guess its more like 1100kg - 1200kg? (it should be stamped on the vin plate if you want to be 100% certain).... but it will be way over the 750kg. There is only one or two cars made that do and they are bublecar 2 seaters made from grp!

the recovery a frames do work on all 4 wheels as all they do is have a cable from the back of the tow hitch which then pulls the brake peddle on overrun (hence 'all' wheel braking)... the quality kits go a bit further and have a fitted cable that is pemminently fitted and goes through the bulkhead and not through an open window like on the recovery ones.

I guess if your going to risk it then towing with a big van is the way to go thumb nothing is ever simple these days no idea


 
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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:40 am 
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making a braked a frame shouldnt be that hard, and if your willing to fit a bulkhead tube then if you are stopped then you can say you have followed the governments advice and fitted a braked one?

just had a quick look on tinternet to see if i could find these still..

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we have one a bike trailer and its legal to 1500kg and qualifies as overrun braking (spring dampered)... put a reverse linkage on this with a pull cabe (as on the trailers) with an a frame and you SHOULD pass the 750kg rule!


Last edited by Jenna on Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total

 
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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:45 am 
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Jenna wrote:
making a braked a frame shouldnt be that hard, and if your willing to fit a bulkhead tube then if you are stopped then you can say you have followed the governments advice and fitted a braked one?


That was our interpretation a while back, but we slightly more inventive (silly) with the braking methods!

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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:52 am 
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that bradley coupling is £130 so not cheap, but i would guess they could be way cheaper on ebay if you waited for one.

steel for the frame is peanuts, top the range bowden cable is £30 in a short length... all in all i'd guess you could make a kit for £300 with new or £150 if you can find a cheap coupling! no idea


 
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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:58 am 
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130413952234 on ebay

thats your starting point Wink


 
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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:23 am 
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lol nothing is ever a new idea....

http://vehicles.vivastreet.co.uk/carava ... e/26511954


 
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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:35 am 
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from memory the bug has no servo?

if not this is in your favour!

...If the trailer braking system has power assistance (i.e. servo or full power) it is likely that this assistance will be required while in motion to meet the required braking efficiencies. This is because once the vacuum reservoir is depleted it is possible that the brakes will not meet the braking efficiency. To prevent the trailer being used illegally a remote vacuum pump, powered from the tow vehicle, could be installed to recharge the reservoir.....

the only fly in the principle is.....From 1 October 1988 the inertia braking system was required to allow the trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained drag and such devices used for this purpose must engage and disengage automatically. This will be very difficult to achieve on an "A" frame using an inertia (overrun) device.

hope that helps.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:01 pm 
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I have a home-brewed a frame.

It clamps around the lower torsion tube - works beautifully.

With the steering column unlocked, the wheels naturally follow the tow car as you pull into a turn.
It's a bit like if you just let go of the steering wheel when driving, the front suspension / steering geometry takes over & sorts it all out for you Cool

We used it to tow a buggy across the country when i sold it. Far more stable than on a trailer (lower c of g, lighter, better suspension etc etc).



However......

We did get stopped once, and the traffic officer called up a VOSA rep to inspect what we were up to.
Basically, we got away with it as they had better things to be doing & we happened to be recovering the car from a breakdown at the time.


Personally I wouldn't try it nowadays Confused



The annoying thing (for me) is that my Dad has an ideal tow vehicle & trailer, but being (relatively) young, my licence wont allow me to use it!
I need to just man up and pay for the test.

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 Post subject: Re: Towing A Frames ?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Jenna wrote:
from memory the bug has no servo?

if not this is in your favour!

...If the trailer braking system has power assistance (i.e. servo or full power) it is likely that this assistance will be required while in motion to meet the required braking efficiencies. This is because once the vacuum reservoir is depleted it is possible that the brakes will not meet the braking efficiency. To prevent the trailer being used illegally a remote vacuum pump, powered from the tow vehicle, could be installed to recharge the reservoir.....

the only fly in the principle is.....From 1 October 1988 the inertia braking system was required to allow the trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained drag and such devices used for this purpose must engage and disengage automatically. This will be very difficult to achieve on an "A" frame using an inertia (overrun) device.

hope that helps.


On the reversing issue, wouldn't it be impossible to back a vehicle on an A frame anyway no idea
surely the minute you started to push the vehicle the castor would be 180 degrees out and the steering would bang over to full lock.

not quite the same but my GP doesn't have track rods yet - you can push it forwards easily but try backwards and the wheels go everywhich way immediately no idea

very interested in the brake A frame idea tho' thumb

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